Why David SHOULD stay!

[KurtisMowen[VLAD]]

Okay, I know I just started this topic and it's very simular to "Why does David stay" but I personally would like to hear from the fans why he should stay. I'll post something a little later today, I have a meeting to attend.

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'Nuff Said.

[KurtisMowen[VLAD]]

Told you I'd post something a little later... Anyway, Here's some lyrics from The song "Rest In Peace" by Joss Whedon for his "Buffy Musical", that I feel is apropriate for this topic:
I know I should go
But I follow you like a man possessed
There's a traitor here
Beneath my breast
And it hurts me more
Than you've ever guessed
If my heart could beat
It would break my chest
But I can see
That you're unimpressed
So, leave me be
And let me Rest in Peace...

Okay... Okay, maybe it's a bit abstract just from this tidbit I put down, but if you get a chance find the song and listen to it in it's entire form. Trust me, you'll see my point, it's about unrequeted love(please don't mind the spelling, I never said it was my strong suit)
Anyway, I felt the whole "Why does David stay" Topic was a bit moot and double-sided, like most pressing SIP issues. Of course, I do expect to see a new "Why David shouldn't stay" topic posted to counter my ideals, and that's fine.
Nonetheless, this is why David should stay:

1.) He loves Katchoo (Duh!) regardless of the outcome of how she feels about him or the resulting pain there in.

2.) He also sees a kindred spirit with Kat, because of there personally experiences and the hells they've both been through and survived (HOPEFULLY, if *ahem* TERRY is reading this, we'll get to see a little bit more of DAvid's dark past while he's off in Japan, until his return.... and he BETTER return)

3.) He's a great character and does complicate many things, which we greatly need for any story. Come on, D-Boy is our catalyst for a great many things!

4.) Finally, but I'm quite sure I'll write more about this later, is we've already seen some of the future in the series for continum's sake He's required.

Also did I mention, I like the guy. He reminds me of slightly more naive me.



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'Nuff Said.

[Anaka]

originally posted "He loves Katchoo (Duh!) regardless of the outcome of how she feels about him or the resulting pain there in."

mainly the "he loves her... regardless... of how she feels about him" why do people think this is romantic or something? (I know, I'm sorry this is a 'for David' post but I missed the other) When a guy follows a girl around, won't leave her alone despite repeated protests this is known in the real world as Stalking! And sure Katchoo is a big girl, and we think she can handle herself... but the times she hit David he never hit back... but what if we had? We've seen him be violent. Hell he hit that guy One time and killed him, what if he hit Katchoo? I think he had no reason to stay and every reason to leave. In fact I think the only 'manly' thing he's done so far is to leave.
He was stuck in a rut unmoving... well, maybe backsliding, but definately not coping or moving forward, and he was dragging Kat with him.
And as much as we might wish that 'love is enough', it isn't. There must also be trust, respect, and above all else comunication. And there is certainly a derth of all three in their relationship. Sure he loves her, and she loves him too in a way; but he also drives her nuts, isn't what she yearns for, and she wants to strangle him four out of five times laying eyes on him.


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[KarmaPolice]

As another Buffy viewer, I have to add in: I don't like Buffy and Spike for exactly the reasons Anaka mentioned. Just because Spike loves/isobsessedwith/lustsfor Buffy does NOT mean she has to love him back, or even like him at all. The important thing is how Buffy feels, not how Spike wants her to feel.

But, in the case of Katchoo and David, I have always thought that Katchoo DOES love David back, from way back in the series right up to now. It's not that I think she owes him anything just because he loves her, I think she loves him too and will regret letting him go. Katchoo does the same thing with David that Francine does with Katchoo - holds him at arm's length, but doesn't want him to actually leave. Yet according to some people, in the case of Francine she's "denying her feelings" and in the case of Katchoo she "just doesn't feel that way"? I don't buy that, to me it's the same situation. She is not able, for a number of reasons, to return his love - just like Francine thus far can't return Katchoo's - no matter how much she may want to.

As to why David should stay: it's a better story with him in it. Without David, it's actually a pretty typical lesbian story. With David (and all the other characters) SIP becomes unique, that's why I do not subscribe to the idea that SIP is about K+F only. A third party brings in a whole new dimension. Plus, I like him.



[This message has been edited by KarmaPolice (edited February 02, 2002).]

[Darth Fett]

Sorry Vlad, but the first 2 points are HORIFFICALLY dysfunctional. David leaving was the only time I ever saw any backbone in ol'D-boy.

Besides, the only future reference we have to David is that Kat does marry him at some point, and that when Kat sees Francie 10 years later, David is not around and SOMETHING wrong. So no continuity problems, cause at any point Kat could fly to Tokyo and marry him. Cause even tho' he showed evidence of spine, he'd take her back in a heartbeat.

Darth

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"Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there."
-Jerry Fanrsworth, 'Job, A Comedy of Justice' by R.A. Heinlein

[Eden]

Curious - what do you think Katchoo wants?
"Should I stay or should I go?" if David asked her that, what would she say?

"I want you to stay but be asexual and ignore this whole love thing you've got going and never, never say bad things about my murderous butch sister." or "I want you to go because I feel that you're only hurting both of us by being here and it's an exercise in mutual frustration - the old platonic friendship we had will never return."

Obviously Katchoo doesn't know what she wants, she's miserable no matter what David does. If he's there, she treats him like shit and tries to pigeonhole him into The Gay Roomate role (be emotionally supportive but not In Love with me stereotype) and when he leaves, she cries.

David leaving has forced Katchoo into an active role. If she wants to go after him, she'll have to make some very clear descisions and when they meet again the groundrules will be set. if she's still not ready to face him and decides she never will be, that's a clear descision too. David had removed himself from the playing feild and it's in Katchoo's hands now.
Go Dave!

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nolite te bastardes carborundorum

[Mousse]

The only reasons I can think of why David should stay have to do with reader relationship to comic book. Should this be an extended leave for him from the series, I'll miss his presence more than I would any other character's.
However in terms of relationship between David and Katchoo, he has no reason to stay. David's been waiting for her to decide if she's going to accept him the way he wants to be, or voluntarily push him away. But ultimately it's not her obligation to make that choice. It's David's choice. It was his responsibility for himself to decide how long he was willing to stagnate at her arm's length, and he finally chose.
To redirect this thread's question slightly: presuming the ten-year story arc is legitimate is there any reason to believe David and Katchoo's marriage is anything more than a settlement for an availability? I ask because I find it difficult to believe Katchoo will ever be in love with him, but I CAN believe with a bit of unease that David would spend his life accepting himself as her second choice.

"There are worse things in this world than being alone. Try chairing a committee." -Ann Molyneaux

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[Thrasymachos]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="comic sans ms, jester, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mousse:
I find it difficult to believe Katchoo will ever be in love with him, but I CAN believe with a bit of unease that David would spend his life accepting himself as her second choice.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Katchoo says she married him.
2. Katchoo does love David. Sometimes. Sort of. She has shown him camraderie, tenderness, jealousy, and passion. But never the "one, true love" that Plato the Polar Bear of P2 moons about.
3. If David finally lost patience with Katchoo before the wedding, would he really spend his entire life accepting that she really loved another? With no other tie (children, religion, economic dependence, etc.) to bind them, such a marriage could not last.
I agree with your first point: He has no reason to stay.


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Peregrinator in paradiso.

[Yazimariel]

Who says David SHOULD stay?

The man should go far far away and never ever come back. HEE HEE. I wouldn't mind getting a story of his past and stuff. As long as he's not anywhere near Kat and Francie. forgive me if I sound a bit... okay, if hating women is mysoginistic, what's the name for hating men? And trust me I don't hate men. I don't hate David either. I just seriously dislike him. Mainly BECAUSE he stays. That man needs to realize that he's a good guy, a good catch, and needs to move on and BE happy instead of pining for Kat, who can be a bitch in her best times. Only reason I like Kat and Francie together is cuz I feel like they complete each other in a way that they can only be the best of themselves when they're together. So.

I don't remember exactly if Kat did confirm or not Francie's question about her marrying David. What happens to David that Kat is so quiet afterwards? He finally realizes that Kat ain't enough for him to be goo-gooing and ga-gaing all day long and leaves her, making her realize she must change ways, turning her into the composed, beautiful, happy and almost-complete woman we see after the ten year rip.

anyhoo, I am now rambling. must now go.
When's number 47 coming out?!

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"I'm telling you stories. Trust me." Jeanette Winterson

[Jadian]

The compliment of miogyny is misandry. If you hate men you're a misandrist.

I agree. David should keep away from those two, if only for his mental health.

It's occured to me, if we saw Freddie treating Francine the same way Katchoo treats David, would we be as sympathetic and understanding as we are?

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Don't judge some one until you have walked a mile in their shoes, because then, when you do, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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